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| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0001505 | OpenClonk | Objects | public | 2015-12-19 22:39 | 2018-01-07 18:02 | ||||||||
| Reporter | ala | ||||||||||||
| Assigned To | Clonkonaut | ||||||||||||
| Priority | normal | Severity | minor | Reproducibility | always | ||||||||
| Status | feedback | Resolution | no change required | ||||||||||
| Product Version | |||||||||||||
| Target Version | 9.0 | Fixed in Version | |||||||||||
| Summary | 0001505: You can use the teleglove to cheat through fog of war | ||||||||||||
| Description | The sparks of the teleglove illuminate the surroundings, this is cool - but works regardless of materials and therefor you can scan the landscape with it. It should only work on non-solid materials. Also it should respect line of sight, so you wouln't be able to discover an underground cave with it. | ||||||||||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||||||||||
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Zapper (developer) 2015-12-21 11:45 |
In treasure hunt it's really useful (and necessary?) because otherwise the mission would be basically impossible or at least a lot more frustrating.. But yeah, it's pretty hacky otherwise. |
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Sven2 (developer) 2015-12-21 16:01 |
It's a nice secondary use. We also have the fixed viewport to limit view range. Does it really need to be changed? |
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Zapper (developer) 2015-12-21 17:43 |
Imo not now as we don't have any scenarios where this is an issue. We should have it on the radar, though. |
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ala (developer) 2015-12-21 17:55 Last edited: 2015-12-21 17:55 |
Yes, I agree it was useful in that mission - and this can wait till we have more light sources (which is at least scheduled in the milestone - who knows when its done). Still for a teammelee the behaviour would be unwanted. |
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Sven2 (developer) 2015-12-21 18:42 |
Why unwanted? It's a scouting tool. And it's not that easy to build (doesn't it need cloth?) |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-21 23:17 |
It doesn't need cloth, no. It needs "Crystal" something we don't have. ;) But it is built in the Inventor's Workshop and therefore a high tier product. It's okay for it to be powerful. I would agree that this doesn't need change. It's a very nice use for this tool. |
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Sven2 (developer) 2015-12-22 02:35 |
So, how about we add the scouting use to the description and close the bug? If it turns out to be problematic in a future scenario, we can think about restrictions. |
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ala (developer) 2015-12-22 09:14 |
Good argument with the high tier product. It probably won't interfere with other light sources normally. Ok, I'm fine with keeping it as well. Before the bug is closed: Could the need of crystal be changed to diamonds or gemstones? That would still make it hard to produce in most cases. |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-22 10:44 |
Diamonds is a good idea. |
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Maikel (developer) 2015-12-22 10:45 |
I would think gem stones would be good yes, it is very powerful. But then we need to check all rounds which use the TeleGlove whether they have gems. Diamonds would be a bad idea, since no round uses them and they have not been tested. I would keep diamonds a bit more special and rather not use them as resources for the main items in the game. |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-22 10:54 |
Done. |
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Maikel (developer) 2015-12-22 10:58 Last edited: 2015-12-22 10:59 |
You did the opposite of what I preferred... and just broke almost all our scenarios with the teleglove. |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-22 10:59 Last edited: 2015-12-22 11:02 |
Huh @every round needs testing Up until now, it was impossible to make a teleglove because there is no object "Crystal". How could any scenario rely on telegloves being producable then? We can change this to gemstones, however, I suggest to wait for this: http://bugs.openclonk.org/view.php?id=1148 Otherwise you'd have to (arbitrarily) decide which of the two gems you need. I don't see the teleglove as being a "main item" though but a very special one. It solves so many problems and makes so many things easier, I'd be okay with it being hard to get. |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-22 11:16 |
I see. Definitions that did not exist are ignored by the production menu? So, the teleglove could be made with just 2 metal then? Well, I had a quick look. Four scenarios list the teleglove in knowledge (Acid Drilling, Deadly Grotto, Deep Sea Mining, Golden Mountain), two supply it via script (Flooded Veins and Gem Grabbers). Of those only two have an inventor's lab (Golden Mountain and Gem Grabbers). I don't know if there is ruby / amethyst anywhere in Golden Mountain. Diamonds are easily added to those scenarios, gemstones are not. I am open for suggestions. |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-22 11:22 |
I forgot Krakatoa which also provides the knowledge via script. No gemstones there either. |
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Pyrit (developer) 2015-12-22 12:20 |
I'd suggest to make it rely on electric power, so you can only x-ray the the ground near your base. |
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Sven2 (developer) 2015-12-22 12:21 Last edited: 2015-12-22 12:22 |
Golden Mountain has rubies and building a tele glove is the standard strategy there. If it requires diamonds then diamonds have to be added to that round (I suggest putting at least some of them into the left area of the landscape). In Gem Grabbers we also often built tele gloves. Gem grabbers also has gems but no diamonds (yet). Yes unknown definitions in requirements are ignored. |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-22 12:49 |
I don't have the time to add the diamonds to all those scenarios now. I reverted the component change. You can again build the teleglove from 2 metal. I still strongly favour the diamond idea though. |
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Maikel (developer) 2015-12-22 15:43 |
I strongly disfavour the diamond idea, it adds another layer of complexity to the game which is not obvious to players, is not existing in any rounds we currently have and has not been tested. This means it will break all existing rounds and especially means I have to redesign all rounds. Before we go ahead with these I need to be convinced. What is the gameplay argument behind diamonds? Also Gem Grabbers will not get diamonds, because it is about gems. I think I'd even prefer a solution which is just more metal, and maybe require a gold bar to produce it, it is already yellow and shines, after all. |
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Maikel (developer) 2015-12-22 15:48 |
Power is also a solution, but then it needs to be able to store a bit of charge so that you can use it briefly outside of the base. Otherwise it is useless. |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2015-12-25 12:02 |
Well, I don't care that much about the teleglove. The whole item just always felt a bit like a cheat object or game solver to me ;) Just not something a determined player should get in the first 15 minutes of playing. Therefore, diamonds offer a nice gameplay mechanic because you can't simply get them but discover those over time like a hidden treasure. At some point, you will eventually have them to craft some "uber items"! It's like a little random spawn. As for Gem Grabbers I don't see a problem with the scenario being about "gemstones" because that includes diamonds ;) But also can you manage just fine without a teleglove as we did in our video playthrough. I wouldn't say the scenario is broken without the glove. I agree that diamonds need proper testing and some scenarios will have to be changed. That's why we shouldn't change stuff for the upcoming release. I did that because I wrongfully thought the teleglove isn't craftable anyway. But you might consider the idea for 8.0. I find those secret, hidden, powerful objects intriguing |
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Maikel (developer) 2015-12-25 20:45 |
Okay, let's postpone this until 8.0. |
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Maikel (developer) 2016-01-10 09:30 |
After a discussion I propose that it can be build from either diamond, ruby or amethyst + 2x metal. |
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occ (reporter) 2017-10-27 11:26 |
Hi! There's been a check-in that references this bug. For more information you can visit the repository browser at this address: https://git.openclonk.org/openclonk.git/commitdiff/2c4aba74f0699e558f381a965637b33abd7189d0 Changeset 2c4aba7 by Clonkonaut <Armag3ddon@web.de> Teleglove production: needs any one gem (diamond, ruby, amethyst) to produce (as discussed in 0001505). |
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Clonkonaut (developer) 2017-10-27 11:27 |
As you can see, I changed the teleglove as discussed. Needs testing and can be removed very easily (remove the one function from the teleglove's script). |
| Notes |
| Issue History |
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| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2015-12-19 22:39 | ala | New Issue | |
| 2015-12-21 11:45 | Zapper | Note Added: 0004352 | |
| 2015-12-21 16:01 | Sven2 | Note Added: 0004354 | |
| 2015-12-21 17:43 | Zapper | Note Added: 0004356 | |
| 2015-12-21 17:55 | ala | Note Added: 0004357 | |
| 2015-12-21 17:55 | ala | Note Edited: 0004357 | View Revisions |
| 2015-12-21 18:42 | Sven2 | Note Added: 0004358 | |
| 2015-12-21 23:17 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004360 | |
| 2015-12-22 02:35 | Sven2 | Note Added: 0004361 | |
| 2015-12-22 09:14 | ala | Note Added: 0004363 | |
| 2015-12-22 10:44 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004364 | |
| 2015-12-22 10:45 | Maikel | Note Added: 0004365 | |
| 2015-12-22 10:54 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004366 | |
| 2015-12-22 10:54 | Clonkonaut | Status | new => closed |
| 2015-12-22 10:54 | Clonkonaut | Assigned To | => Clonkonaut |
| 2015-12-22 10:54 | Clonkonaut | Resolution | open => no change required |
| 2015-12-22 10:58 | Maikel | Note Added: 0004367 | |
| 2015-12-22 10:58 | Maikel | Status | closed => new |
| 2015-12-22 10:59 | Maikel | Note Edited: 0004367 | View Revisions |
| 2015-12-22 10:59 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004368 | |
| 2015-12-22 11:02 | Clonkonaut | Note Edited: 0004368 | View Revisions |
| 2015-12-22 11:16 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004369 | |
| 2015-12-22 11:22 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004370 | |
| 2015-12-22 12:20 | Pyrit | Note Added: 0004371 | |
| 2015-12-22 12:21 | Sven2 | Note Added: 0004372 | |
| 2015-12-22 12:22 | Sven2 | Note Edited: 0004372 | View Revisions |
| 2015-12-22 12:49 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004373 | |
| 2015-12-22 15:43 | Maikel | Note Added: 0004374 | |
| 2015-12-22 15:48 | Maikel | Note Added: 0004375 | |
| 2015-12-25 12:02 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0004387 | |
| 2015-12-25 20:45 | Maikel | Note Added: 0004388 | |
| 2015-12-25 20:45 | Maikel | Assigned To | Clonkonaut => |
| 2015-12-25 20:45 | Maikel | Status | new => acknowledged |
| 2015-12-25 20:45 | Maikel | Product Version | 7.0 => 8.0 |
| 2016-01-04 15:18 | Maikel | Product Version | 8.0 => |
| 2016-01-04 15:18 | Maikel | Target Version | => 8.0 |
| 2016-01-10 09:30 | Maikel | Note Added: 0004511 | |
| 2017-10-27 11:26 | occ | Note Added: 0005868 | |
| 2017-10-27 11:27 | Clonkonaut | Note Added: 0005870 | |
| 2017-11-01 00:39 | Clonkonaut | Assigned To | => Clonkonaut |
| 2017-11-01 00:39 | Clonkonaut | Status | acknowledged => feedback |
| 2018-01-07 18:02 | Clonkonaut | Target Version | 8.0 => 9.0 |
| Issue History |
